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August 12, 2011

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The Bristol Blogger

What sort of uprising leaves the local power - Hackney Council - untouched, but Footlocker ransacked?

Take it literally and its an uprising against Footlocker.

Not as daft as it sounds. What would you eventually do if the only thing you're supposed to care about is sports brands?

Rasta

I heard that there was sustained figthing with the police on Clarence Rd, where I used to live. I wasn't there in the 80s to compare it, nor did I see it happen now to get an accurate assessment of it (did you?)
And in answer to your question "what sort of uprising...etc"... maybe the sort of uprising that is undertaken by youths who are not particularly politically educated or astute and who do not have enough focus in their justified anger, but who might if people who supposedly know better (no names) actually talked to (not at) them about these things, as opposed to blithering about it on their whiny blogs that try to make out that 91% of the population (white people) have suddenly become some sort of persecuted minority because some twits in the twittersphere happen to be writing some perhaps not entirely fair (don't know cos I wasn't there) politically correct type comments about em.

Lenny The Lying

I might suggest that the sight of the Eltham and Enfield lads storming round looking for someone (anyone) to challenge, whilst chanting Ingerland and getting pissed, was a bit of a turnoff...

[But if they'd built barricades on their home turf - as some of the estates in Manchester tried to do - that would have been something else.]

As for the small business, cricket bats & swords, geezers? Just think of the LA riots and those "brave" Koreans with pump action shotguns... they fitted nicely into the dominant narrative.

james walsh

I think the rason sensiable people haven't been trying to talk to these people over the years- is because idiots like Rasta have been allowed to say what the safe peramitters of what we should talk about are and these fuckers have given real talk about class society a bad name.

The time is- the time to move on- leaving the idiots like Rasta and co behind and come up with a better plan. We're getting there and we've seen who's got the guts to last the real course based around priniciple and what's right- and those who jump on any bandwagon in our to fuck it up all over again.

The number should have been up on the pinkos years ago, too many are soft on a wrong ern. The real class war side of things people have always been too forgiving and too soft hearted.

Ian always looks on the bright side- that ain't good enough in the real world. It just doesn't cut it.

Thor halland

" all be terrified by white men guarding against looters in Eltham and Enfield, but encouraged by the sight of Turkish, Sikh and Muslim men guarding against looters in Hackney, Southall and Birmingham"

Its the usual narrative to be expected from the Guardian/BBC but echoed by Cameron and The Times trying to discredit any popular movement involving white men.

" might suggest that the sight of the Eltham and Enfield lads storming round looking for someone (anyone) to challenge, whilst chanting Ingerland and getting pissed, was a bit of a turnoff..." And we have who's word for this? The Guardian? The BBC?


Rasta

Fuck you James Walsh you daft cunt. I've been allowed to "set the paramaters" of what people say? That's funny, I don't recall censoring any of your fucking stupid comments. You are free to dribble your bullshit so what the fuck are you moaning about???
Now, those with ears to hear, let them hear some REAL TALK!!! Check out this brother, he is speaking the fucking truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldFWC1pxBsQ

Rasta

PS that clip is part 1 of 2, mek sure to check the 2nd part too!

Thor! God of Blunder!

The Guardian? The BBC? Posted by: Thor halland | August 13, 2011 at 02:09 PM

No. The EDfuckingL.

darren redstar

1. there are clear parrallels between the reaction to the murder of Alexandros Grigoropolous two years ago in Greece and the murder of mark duggan last thursday.
the same explosion of anger a t both repression/authority and at the symbols of inequality.
2. where the difference shows is in the political direction of the riots; though as ian bone ( and others) has shown the rioters have a clear class agenda ( and their enemies certainly have)there has been a compltete lack of, formal, politics. In Greece the existence of a large communist party, and a seriously involved activist movement which was engaged with the young working class rioters, gave the riots in greece a positive direction and by combining street protest with practical solidarity work ensured tha the police and goverment stayed on the back foot.
3. here, decades of the left 'professionalising' itself, not simply Labour's retreat from the working class, but also the withering of the community activists- their cooption into paid employees dependent on local govt. largesse and becoming not a defence for their communities but instead partners with thepolice in its control.
4. the revolutionary left, always parasitic, simply follows in the wake- on facebook I have received a campaign notice, to demand the reopening of a job centre, as if another weapon in the policing and punishment of the kids is needed!
In town this morning on the way to work the socialist party were flogging their papers under the slogan 'riots are never the answer- build a mass movement to take on the tory govt.'- the grasses of the millie are still touting their cops are workers in uniform crap.

Thor halland

What a fucking joke this "brother" is (as Rasta class him) Apparently 70% of all Black people are in jail in the UK! More telling is the rather embarrassed looks of the people round him, of all races.

And ,obviously, he wears a Liverpool shirt which further compounds his lunacy.

Rasta

You're a fucking joke, asshole. So what if he got one factoid wrong, does it invalidate the rest of what he has to say? Go fuck yourself. Had it with you cunts.

Thor halland

" Had it with you cunts."

Run along then little Rasters.

Internationalist

Along with the majority of people, on the one hand I don't share the enthusiasm for the riots, while on the other I acknowledge that they have social and economic causes and therefore cannot be dismissed as simple yobbery.

There were a few soundbites that suggested a level of class consciousness on the part of some rioters - Ian Bone has posted some of them - but not much and it's not very convincing.

Meanwhile there is nothing to celebrate in people's flats being burned down, let alone the deaths of three men defending a petrol station. People who have said "you are either with the rioters or against them" should address this.

The majority of the victims were unable to defend themselves. This obviously plays into the hands of gangsters and vigilantes on the one hand and the police on the other.

Riots are an explosion of anger and frustration but they are not an effective means of struggle and they reinforce rather than challenge the (im)morality of capitalism, that the strong are entitled to prey on the weak.

Riots also have the potential for turning very nasty as they could easily have done in Birmingham in particular.

It is hardly surprising that people are ready to embrace reactionary ideas if they have been living in mortal fear of getting beaten up or mugged or seeing their homes destroyed.

Luckily, it looks like the Sikhs, Turks and others who organized to defend themselves were more disciplined and restrained than they might have been given the provocation and threats they faced.

As to the "ethnic" question that Paul raised.

Whatever his political views or religion, I cannot regard an Asian shopkeeper who has seen his life's work destroyed in a single night as the enemy. And I can't blame him for wanting to defend himself - even if he is a Muslim. On the other hand I cannot regard a white vigilante, trying to exploit the situation to stir up trouble against blacks or Muslims, as an ally.

BTW I've been reading a lot of the "guff on the internet" too and I don't think Lenin's Tomb is in any way representative.

The author, Richard Seymour, is just a typical lefty who seems to think there is something inherently superior about being black or Muslim. It is a view I reject.

Riots are easy for the capitalist state to contain once the initial anger and elation has burned out. Will there be any lasting legacy other than more repression and a bit of extra funding for Tottenham? I doubt it.

Rasta

No one has said "you are either with the rioters or against them." N-O O-N-E. Where the fuck would you be without putting straw man arguments in other people's mouths Internationalist? & @Thor: I've been thinking about stopping posting on here for a while now, but actually I'm gonna keep doing so, just to annoy you, you pathetic fucking idiot. OH and Walshy... those "parameters" that I supposedly have set that you're not allowed to say certain things... did that Starkey "historian" cross those parameters? Is that what you wanted to say? "the whites have become black" LOOOOOL mega lolz til my stomach cramps. PS @ Paul: can you tell me first hand cos I don't know - go down Clarence Road - did people burn down any of the little shops there (as opposed to the chain shops on Mare Street)? Cos I heard that the youths (and some olders) there were concentrating on fighting the motherfucking police, not on burning down "their" neighbourhood. But I could be wrong... you're in Hackney so you tell me.

thor halland

"@Thor: I've been thinking about stopping posting on here for a while now, but actually I'm gonna keep doing so, just to annoy you, you pathetic fucking idiot. "

You decide to keep posting to annoy someone you have never met and you call me pathetic?

"Whatever his political views or religion, I cannot regard an Asian shopkeeper who has seen his life's work destroyed in a single night as the enemy. And I can't blame him for wanting to defend himself - even if he is a Muslim. On the other hand I cannot regard a white vigilante, trying to exploit the situation to stir up trouble against blacks or Muslims, as an ally."

yes, Asians must be the good guys and whites the bad guys. The man in Ealing who was kicked to death by yobs was clearly a BNP vigilante.

Rasta

Nothing to say to the skunthole above. Everyone should read this statement from All London Anarchist Revolutionary Movement (ALARM)- it says everything that needs to be said in exactly the right way. Only thing I would add would be an explicit "R.I.P" to ALL who lost their lives, condolences to those SMALL business operators whose livelihoods were affected, and a MASSIVE big up to the father of those brothers who were murdered (who knows by whom) in Birmingham for pretty much single-handedly preventing a very ugly and unnecessary confrontation between the Black and Asian communities in that city. Check the statement: https://towerhamletsalarm.wordpress.com/2011/08/12/understanding-the-riots-where-next/
And this piece of constructive criticism by Pato Banton was written in the 1980s but it could just as well have been written yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPNSDOaxq4w

Thor halland

" Nothing to say to the skunthole above."

Poor old little Rasters

Internationalist

@Foulmouth: No one has said "you are either with the rioters or against them." N-O O-N-E.

You are wrong. A couple of people made that point over at Ian Bone's blog, and Paul's post referred specifically to the commentary over there.

Now go and wash your mouth out, and stop taking everything so personally.

Internationalist

@Thor: yes, Asians must be the good guys and whites the bad guys. The man in Ealing who was kicked to death by yobs was clearly a BNP vigilante.

Your juvenile sarcasm is wasted because I did not write that, for the simple reason it's not my view. You would know that if you'd followed my arguments with Mr Foulmouth.

My point was that I would not take sides with anyone who is trying to exploit the situation to stir up further (and worse) trouble.


Internationalist

The ALARM statement is pretty good but a bit naive and over-optimistic - I don't think people were consciously attacking "symbols of capitalism" or of "the state".

https://towerhamletsalarm.wordpress.com/2011/08/12/understanding-the-riots-where-next/

Moreover, though the greed of the rich is disgusting it is not the actual cause of the economic crisis.

I think this is a pretty good analysis:

https://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2011-08-09/riots-in-britain-the-fruit-of-forty-years-of-capitalist-crisis

james walsh

Pretty good artical. It's a tad crass to put everything down to profit margins though no doubt that has played it part in why now. The wider ideological playing out of society is at least as an important aspect and a more enlightening area to find understanding from.

As to the likes of SWP or the newspaper the Voice they just represent the proffesional class who got there snouts in the trough after 81.

'So long as capitalism continues on its downward spiral of crisis with the rich getting richer and the poorest more and more excluded there will be more and more explosions like these.' Well thats a brave statement not supported by any facts, the way the sate is looking at events is as a crisis of management and that also seems to be the SWP view.

I agree with the conclussion that only a communistic view can present truely postive answers, I just don't see that happening from a group of people who are so wedded to a religion that will always reinterperate facts to suit their model of the world.

james walsh

I'd have called the artical '43 years of left failure from 1968.'

Rasta

@Internationalist: wash my mouth out? Eat shit and die you fucking cunt. Why the fuck should I care what is a "bad word" in the english language? If it was up to me I wouldn't be speaking English anyway, I'd be speaking Igbo, Yoruba or whatever my ancestors spoke before they were kidnapped to the western hemisphere. Or Welsh, like my other set of ancestors (some of whom were actually "English" since borders are porous and there's considerable genetic overlap between "welsh" and "english" so don't bother calling me a "racist" or a "nationalist", fuckface). PS take the stick out of your ass and get on the phone and demand that Hamas release my friend Abu Yazan of Gaza Youth Breaks Out from prison, where he is being held with no charge and without access to a lawyer or contact with his family, that's one useful thing you fuckwits could do with your day. The numbers are: Ayman Tarah (Hamas spokesperson) 00972 599480580 or Gazi Hamad (00972 599601779). Google Gaza Youth Breaks Out and "like" their facebook page to stay updated.

Thor halland

"If it was up to me I wouldn't be speaking English anyway"

You can speak any language that you like. You are just too thick to learn another language.

You are also an incredible fantasist.

Internationalist

If you do manage to learn Igbo it will be thanks to the English colonialists who were the first to write it down.

Your ancestors weren't kidnapped, they were sold into slavery by neighbours who got fed up with all the constant effing and blinding next door.

Internationalist

Interestingly, Yoruba was first written down and its grammar defined by one Samuel A. Crowther, who had been rescued from slavery by the Royal Navy in 1821.

He had earlier been sold to the Portuguese by Muslim slave traders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_A._Crowther

Rasta

Bro Abu Yazan has just been released. If anyone made a call, thanks. Keep the numbers handy cos he has a hearing on Sunday - check gaza youth breaks out facebook and wordpress pages for updates. @ the fucking assholes above - FYI I speak English, Guyanese Creolese, Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese and intend to learn more. Internationalist - you can chat all the shit you want on the internet but I double dare you to tell your little factoids face to face to my brothers and sisters back home... check 2:22 into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-Cmfh0rV8

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