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January 22, 2013

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victor

i get fed up with these twats , stupid antisemitic liberal white middle class self haters, i think our starting point has to be that we support anyone suffering oppression ,and that all organised religion is shit and that includes Islam , just another brand of medieval barbaric bullshit..

Paul Stott

Vic - The really sad thing is they leave out, some of the practical issues Anarchists are now facing.

For example, how do Anarchists in western societies organise in areas where Muslims are either a majority or the largest of several ethnic groups? In Tower Hamlets Whitechapel Anarchist group had to over come all sorts of issues from potential physical harm to being labelled as 'racists' by 'socialists' if they criticised the Saudi backed Islamic Forum of Europe.

It is one thing to unite against the English Defence League, but how do we have a debate about Islam and its role in our society that is not squeezed between fascists on one side and Islamists on the other? By all means defend East London Mosque from fascist attack, but when the EDL goes, you leave behind the strongest political force in the east End - the mosque. How do Anarchists respond when the political establishment and business establishment is - as in Tower Hamlets - Muslim?

I suspect talking about 'Islamophobia' is a lot easier than addressing any of those issues.

I Intend To Escape ......................And Come Back

Vic - The really sad thing is they leave out, some of the practical issues Anarchists are now facing.

For example, how do Anarchists in western societies organise in areas where Muslims are either a majority or the largest of several ethnic groups? In Tower Hamlets Whitechapel Anarchist group had to over come all sorts of issues from potential physical harm to being labelled as 'racists' by 'socialists' if they criticised the Saudi backed Islamic Forum of Europe.

It is one thing to unite against the English Defence League, but how do we have a debate about Islam and its role in our society that is not squeezed between fascists on one side and Islamists on the other? By all means defend East London Mosque from fascist attack, but when the EDL goes, you leave behind the strongest political force in the east End - the mosque. How do Anarchists respond when the political establishment and business establishment is - as in Tower Hamlets - Muslim?

I suspect talking about 'Islamophobia' is a lot easier than addressing any of those issues.

RR

"It is one thing to unite against the English Defence League, but how do we have a debate about Islam and its role in our society that is not squeezed between fascists on one side and Islamists on the other"

One of the bigger blocks is definitely that the Left comes down hard on criticism of Islam because it fears both giving racism/fascism any rhetorical way in and a potential pushing of people into the arms of hardliners, but in the process can end up giving a free ride to (or even standing directly behind) the most reactionary wing of the minority being protected.

Which in the long run actually a) sidelines the left and b) encourages the right because people see an everyday gulf between the presentation of a homogenous group of decent people and the facts on the ground that in any community some people aren't very nice at all.

The real goal I think is to identify and ignite sites of struggle which are shared across the population in Tower Hamlets and an encouragement of critical practices within the muslim population that can help sideline the influence of self-appointed "voices of the community" wherever possible - in fact to normalise an idea of class before culture.

Which is a real bugger to sort out, as the anarchists really have no clear view of the terrain or strategy to exploit it (who's employed where, what the big issues are that would draw working class people across the board, who needs isolating and discrediting, who has the most to gain from allying with secularists etc) and precious few people who could give the sort of inside track that's needed.

Mona Eltahawy's American Passport

The most depressing thing about that call for articles is you have 'Anarchists' who have unquestionably accepted the academic concept of 'Islamlophobia'.

I thought all Anarchists feared religion?

Darren redstar

Perhaps this is what they want...
Class War Federation

13th June 2006

Dear Mr. Pitt,


Your web site Islamophobiawatch has come to our attention.

We notice that among those who have been denounced as ‘islamophobic bigots’ are the National Secular Society, the Worker-communist parties of Iraq and Iran, Peter Tatchell and his organisation OutRage!, and Rowan Atkinson(?).


We are disappointed that Class War should be omitted from this list. As real revolutionaries we are, of course, opposed to all and any attempt to cheat and hoodwink our class with superstitious lies about magic and miracles.


Thus we are proud to be Islamophobic, just as we are proud to be ‘Christianophic’, ‘Judeophobic’, ‘Hindoophobic’, ‘Buddhaphobic’, and whatever other mumbo- jumbo bullshit that the black crows of the Priestocracy try to foist upon us.


As proof of our suitability for inclusion on your hitlist/blacklist may I draw your attention to our latest issue and the article on Islam (just so you won’t think that we may have put that article in just for the glory of being on your hate list, check any other issue of Class War, or our website and you’ll find numerous insults to both mohammed (piss on him) and his modern day would be Torquemadas).


We look forward to your abuse and the chance to be included with such illustrious company.


Yours,


Darren Redstar


Class War International Secretary (cwfintsec@yahoo.co.uk)

Or there again perhaps not

victor

Darren ,i love you ,you are the dogs bolix ,can i join your gang please , piss on gods and masters, no war but class war ,one solution revolution ,bang that fkin drum ,class class class, war war war , revolution revolution revolution , we wont be hoodwinked , Bakunin and Marx saw through these cunts 100 yrs ago, solidarity

victor

oh ,and talking of practical issues i hope to see my anarchist comrades at the haymarket for the workfare protests on feb 16th at 1pm , solidarity , and fuck all religions, load of old bolix , crawling with kiddie fiddlers

Dr Llarregub


This is a discussion that anarchist hardly need. Islam is a theocracy with some very unpleasant aspects. It is authoritarian with unquestioning obedience to the interpretation of Divine texts from unquestioned leaders. I am not worried about beliefs in a God, Holy Spirit, or an after life. Who knows there might be some anarchist God handing out pie in the sky when we die. Fine. Its when these beliefs are translated into unquestionable orders that worries me. In this respect Islam has nothing to offer the anarchist working class movement.
Yet anarchists are identifying with Islam, which has in effect become the counter culture of the left. From higher education we have seen the dominance of a middle class college relativism which has replaced traditional working class values. We cannot rule out the naive belief that the enemies of my enemies are my friends, widely expressed in several anarchist blogs which at worse praise the Taliban, but generally avoid any criticism of Islam. For example, see the space devoted to denouncing child sex abuse committed by toffs, Tories and celebrities, whilst imposing total censorship on references to Islamic paedophile gangs. My attempts to discuss this are routinely censored by the eminent anarchist bloggers. Yet abuse of working class children ought to be condemned whoever the perpetrators. Is this because of some belief that criticism of Islam will somehow divide the class or lend support to the BNP, EDL? Do we have to defend outright evil to prove we have a different perspective to the BNP et al?
But far worse is that anarchists - although I suspect many calling themselves anarchists are really left fellow travellers, labourists and trots - have accepted the left-right division in terms of one's standpoint in relation to Islam. Right and far right are hostile to Islam and left is pro-Islam. In this framework the old left-right class, economic, division vanishes.
I suspect there are few anarchist groups who would stand up for consistency and reject all authoritarian ideologies. The anarchist bloggers who censor and abuse critics of Islam are no longer capable of a meaningful contribution. How can one discuss anarchism and Islam with anarchists and apostate anarchists who respond hysterically with their predictable 'fuck off racist, cunt scumbag yadder yadder'. But the damage they have done may be irreparable.
It boils down to a simple suggestion. Truth and consistency should be our guide, bollocks to revolutionary truth, selective revision of truth for political expediency. Tell it as it is. Islam is not going to create an anarchist society; its heading towards a theocratic state.

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