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August 19, 2011

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Internationalist

>>> Are there any other sightings of Rauf - either dead or alive?

Yes. He is working as an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas.

Though not a very convincing one.

james walsh

Very 'internationalist' of you not to give a shit about people in Britain being blown up.

And some folk wonder why people don't give a shit about the Left in Britain- they go out of their way to give socialism a bad name- so they can be the only 'vanguardist' 'party' left.

What a shower of shit.

romanticanarchist

Or maybe it's just the relentless sectarianism that puts people off?

Hong Kong Phooey

I always thought Eye Spy was just Top Gear meets Nuts via GQ... but with the chance to win a One Day Kidnap Avoidance Driving Course some where on Wirral.

james walsh

That hasn't hurt the parties of capitalism too much. 'Sectarianism' has just become another word to control debate.

The state's main way of justifing its exsistance is that it 'protects' the citzen from harm, it is one of the best critisms of the state when it is pointed out that the state fails to protect the citzen.

romanticanarchist

There seems to me to be very little disagreement on issues between the mainstream parties these days, who are all in my opinion more right wing than they have ever been. Setting working class people against one another is one of the main ways that they are able to hold on to their power. So we're spoon fed on a culture of fear and of selfishness and greed.

Libertarian socialism will only come about when we start to act together as a class and learn to put aside our fears and our petty squabbles. Struggle radicalises people, it can help us to think outside the boxes that have been constructed for us. You may then be surprised to discover James just how many people are agreeing with you about the state and about illegitimate authority.

By the way, thanks for coming to the UK riots everybody.

james walsh

As I'm sure you aware I was making the point that capitalist parties are not only open about their disagreements- they often to pretend to have violent disagreements when all it is, is a slight difference of prosective.

Liberation socialists will be a lot further down the road of putting aside petty squabbles for practical interaction with the class when they can take rubbust discussion on the chin rather than thinking we shouldn't be open in front of the class in case it 'confusses' them.

I wouldn't be surprised that many people agree with me about the nature of the state and illegitimate authority- what the question is to me is, how can so many folk agree with me but how come no socialist tradition can convert that into a party of the class or much more than moaning as we watch TV.

Of couse struggle radicalises and educates people but defeat and dishonesty in such suggles also can demoralise. I think we need to reflect on the negative as well as the positive.

I guess I have a philosophy that more can be learnt usually by addressing what may have been doing wrong rather than patting ourselves on the back when we don't appear to be very successful at converting so much class antagonisms that people are conscious of into anything that can help us get more organised as a class (or a politics of humanity) for it's self. I know that's considered a bit of a boring question by most but it seems a vital one that some of us need to address. I feel it's necessary to be rather more brutal in such a quest than the culture of the left is happy with.

I’m always willing to help write popular propaganda when there is an organisation (and that can be a rather small group of people) to distribute it. Not that everyone is happy with my brand of class popularism. I just don’t think every discussion needs to revolve around direct questions of how we argue against the ruling class and their minions.

Sorry if I've waffled on.

Thor halland

The riots were a fucking disgrace. There was no political angle at all. It was just mindless theft and destruction of property not to mention murder of entirely innocent people.

Unless you think that robbing a Malaysian student, beating a pensioner to death or crushing 2 petrol station attendants under the wheels of your car is some revolutionary act.

romanticanarchist

I'm not particularly surprised to see that the usual slimy bourgeois liberal observers in our midst have been united with our rulers in their condemnation of the expressions of class anger and discontent that have taken place in the UK over the summer. I imagine they're absolutely petrified of the prospect of being dragged from their well-furnished ivory towers and made a fucking example of.

These people don't understand us. They never have and they never will. So yes, be afraid - be very afraid, because I suspect that justice is a-coming.

Thor halland

- expressions of class anger and discontent

+ orgy of violence and theft against ordinary people.

Love to know how ,exactly, murdering 3 people, none of whom were from the ruling class or robbing a Malaysian student was anything but mindless violence.

> I imagine they're absolutely petrified of the prospect of being dragged from their well-furnished ivory towers and made a fucking example of.

Really? They would have to go a long way to get me and when I did live in London it was in a 40's council block in South Lambeth (as Paul and James can confirm). Did Mayfair houses get sacked? Were there invasions of Weybridge and Hampstead? Of Sandbanks, Edgebaston or Wilmslow(;-p)? No?

Where were people robbed and murdered?

Blakey

I have no idea who Romantic Anarchist is but Thor was right in the thick of it in the MayDay riots a decade ago, a committed hunt sab and no stranger to getting stuck in.

He is certainly not liberal and I think those who know him would probably not think of him as being 'middle class'.8~)

He is slimey though.

Internationalist

@james walsh Very 'internationalist' of you not to give a shit about people in Britain being blown up.
And some folk wonder why people don't give a shit about the Left in Britain- they go out of their way to give socialism a bad name- so they can be the only 'vanguardist' 'party' left.

I don't think anybody here is in favour of blowing people up.

But I very much doubt if people would flock to "the Left" if it simply parroted our rulers' condemnations of what we all agree is wrong anyway. It is certainly not possible to build a progressive movement on hatred of islamism. On the other hand, if I was interested in building a fascist movement, that would be my focus. Hence my flippant remark in response to Paul Stott's post. He is barking up the wrong tree. Entirely.

Meanwhile "the Left" is out of favour because all politics is out of favour. There is a healthy cyncism. In any case I cannot recall a time when "the Left" in Britain, at least in the sense that Walsh presumably means, was in favour. It has not suddenly lost favour because it is "soft" on islamism.

In answer to romantic anarchist, I am living abroad so it is difficult for me to judge and I may be wrong.

But I don't think the riots have done anybody any favours either. They are expressions of anger, which has social and economic causes, certainly, but I have to agree with Thor that the anger was (largely) misdirected.

I found it sad that Tottenham was ransacked and that ordinary people were burned out of their houses.

But here again I don't think it is our job to engage in ritual "condemnations" such as saying they were a disgrace. We certainly should not be joining in with the predictable chorus from our rulers.

There is an opportunity for libertarians to say something unique here.

Instead - surprise surprise - we're calling each other "liberal" and "middle class". As if that is going to rally anyone to the cause.

I got banned at Lenin's Tomb (not for the first time) because I told them they were tossers for trying to read more into the riots than was there.

So I will end with an acknowledgement that Paul Stott is to be applauded for allowing non-orthodox views to be aired here.

romanticanarchist

I wasn't actually referring to Thor Halland in my post, although it could be seen as instructive, to learn that most people, including Thor, assumed that I was.

It is of course possible to support the riots and still be angry about certain events that occurred during the course of them. That's hardly controversial and it's frequently going to be the case as long as people remain unpoliticised and disorganised.

The liberal bourgeouis commentators that I was actually talking about and who are yet making up their minds as to whether this summer's social unrest was 'justified' or 'unjustified' remind me of the high-ranking military officers who meet together after a conflict to discuss whether they've had a 'good war' or a 'bad war'. What these SCUM take for granted and what they all have in common is that the events will have absolutely no impact upon THEIR lives whatsoever - the fundamental factors for them will always remain constant. So we don't need THEM rallying to OUR cause.

Best wishes and solidarity.

web developer perth

I cannot recall a time when "the Left" in Britain, at least in the sense that Walsh presumably means, was in favour. It has not suddenly lost favour because it is "soft" on islamism.

Thor Halland

" I wasn't actually referring to Thor Halland in my post, although it could be seen as instructive, to learn that most people, including Thor, assumed that I was."

Since I was the only one to condemn the riots at that point who else could you be referring to?

Rasta

No reasonable person is uncritical of the riots. Of course some things happened that were indefensible (just as happened in the riots in the 70s, 80s etc. and pretty much every riot that's ever happened, with the more-or-less exception of the poll tax riot). That was pointed out clearly in the ALARM statement I posted on the other thread, by the brother speaking in Clapham Junction whom this idiot "Thor Halland" dismissed as a joke cos he got a statistic wrong in the heat of the moment (actual percentage of black people in prison in the UK is around 15%, whilst we are around 2.2% of the population, so still vastly disproportionate, if not "70%"), by John Pilger in his recent comment on the subject (google it, I ain't got time to look it up), and by every other reasonable person (including many who took part in the riots). But leave it to a fucking wanker like Thor Halland to be a complete reactionary media parrot and go on as if those ugly incidents were the sum total of the uprising. From all I heard in Lower Clapton, Hackney it was much more fighting the police who've been fucking with us for years than about burning down the corner shop, for example. And while I fully condemn burning down Mr Abdullah's corner shop or assaulting poor old eccentric upper class people trying to put out bin fires, resulting in their deaths, let alone mowing people down in an attempt to start a race war (and who knows who the fuck did that cos I sure don't trust the police saying who is guilty or not - ask Dane Williams about that, young kid who could've spent life behind bars cos of mistaken identity - wonder how many like him have *not* had their cases looked at and exonerated).... while I fully condemn all of that, I fully condone taking stuff from the big chain stores. Y'all are supposedly against "capitalism" but you're gonna blanket condemn poor people for liberating some of the consumer goods they're unable to afford? Whether or not they did it with any conscious political agenda. No wonder so few people have conscious political agendas considering that it's wankers like Thor Halland, James Walsh etc. trying to push politics down their throat, who don't have a fucking clue how to talk to normal people on the street, at least those normal people who are not necessarily white and who are under the age of 30. (Of course, maybe you're eloquent as fuck in real life and it's only online that you engage in meaningless waffle like Walsh's above, that is just a grumpy rant from the sidelines about how other people are inadequate without any coherent suggestion as to how they could be adequate... yeah it's important to focus on the negatives as well as the positives but ALL I see you lot doing is whining about the negatives, whether real or imagined, with none but the most vague and meaningless suggestions as to what the positive might be - unless leafletting the fucking SWP about how they shouldn't have invited some speaker from Egypt is an example of positive action building class consciousness - LMAO - I mean, if there's anything more useless than an SWP pamphlet, it's gotta be a pamphlet *aimed at* the SWP. What a criminal waste of trees. Anyway that's all the time I have for the muppet show today, so until next time...

Duncan

It's not only Eye Spy who seem to be confused. Saif Gaddafi also appears to be pulling off the impossible, touring the streets of Tripoli cheering on the regimes fighters while, er, also on his way to the International Criminal Court under arrest!

Thor Halland

RASTA:

"Cos" is a type of lettuce. It is not a substitute for "because". Also use paragraphs.

Black people in the UK are disproportionately in Prison in the UK because they commit a disproportionate amount of crime. You will also find that other people who occupy the lower socio-economic positions in society also commit disproportionate amount of crime, why that is is another matter.

There was no upper class person killed in Ealing. Middle class perhaps.

romanticanarchist

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thi reason
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iz coz yi
widny wahnt
mi ti talk
aboot thi
trooth wia
voice lik
wanna yoo
scruff. if
a toktaboot
thi trooth
lik wanna yoo
scruff yi
widny thingk
it wuz troo.
jist wanna yoo
scruff tokn.
thirza right
way ti spell
ana right way
to tok it. this
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right way a
spellin. this
is ma trooth.
yooz doant no
thi trooth
yirsellz cawz
yi canny talk
right. this is
the six a clock
nyooz. belt up.

Which cunt said colonialism's dead???

Thor Halland

WTF is the above about?

Rasta

Yow Pussyole...@Thor Halland... fuck you and your preferred form of language, dickhead. PS what crime were those 9 and 15 year old black sisters who were threatened with machine guns by the motherfucking police in the midlands committing? Yuh mudda skunt.

james walsh

Every time I talk about the two lads who got 4 years for freedom of speach on facebook- should I call em - my white midlands brothers? Us Midlands folk sem to believe in freedom of speach in a way that London politicos and other multi culturalists don't.

Thor Halland

" Yow Pussyole...@Thor Halland... fuck you and your preferred form of language, dickhead. PS what crime were those 9 and 15 year old black sisters who were threatened with machine guns by the motherfucking police in the midlands committing? Yuh mudda skunt."

I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

Stupid illiterate wanker

Rasta

Not my fault if you don't keep up with the fucking news you fucking asshole who would be missing fucking teeth chatting to I-Man face to face: http://voice-online.co.uk/article/officers-armed-machine-guns-stop-girl-9

Rasta

Walsh eat a fucking fist in your fucking face. I really hate you fucking people and have no more time to chat to you at all (@Walsh, Thor, Internat and some others, not @ everyone who posts on here).

Rasta

BTW I plastered the facebook four all over my facebook and they for damn sure need to be free, what a fucking ridiculous sentence! Just to be clear about Walsh's lying little attempted character asssassination there that I am "racist" and only care about my "black brothers"... you fucking cunt... never answered my question about what you've done for the Tomlinson family did you... fucking reactionary wanker wastes of space, I really wish you would drop dead. Done talk and I'm off this fucking blog for good, ta ra

Rasta

Facebook two I meant, was pissed off and mis typed that. But anyway, yeah, ciao to the people worthy of any respect on here, and fuck off and die to those who ain't, and with that like I said I'm outta here, this blog is bad for my blood pressure.

Thor Halland

Could you just leave and not come back? You keep telling us you are leaving and then you caome back over and over again.

You are a boring, self congratulatory, illiterate racist.

Why not go and mow the Tomlinson families' lawn or make them a nice cup of tea. I doubt they want to read your poetry.

moncler jacket

I like the writing structure of your blog and it does a pretty decent job of presenting the material.

Timberland Waterproof Boots

He is a good friend that speaks well of us behind our backs.

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