British Islamism: Towards An Anarchist Response

Shift magazine will publish my article British Islamism: Towards An Anarchist Response, in their new issue in the New Year. 

Hopefully the article will play a role in kick starting a real debate about how Anarchists respond to Islamism. You can find out more about Shift magazine here. 

Comments

[Internationalist]

Islamism? We're against it Paul, like everyone else.

Next question.

[Rick]

I see you've still got your resident stalker Paul...
If he got himself a job he wouldn't have to spend all day wanking off over your blog.

[Internationalist]

"If he got himself a job he wouldn't have to spend all day wanking off over your blog."

Aha! Now I remember what I miss about the anarchist milieu.

It's the quality of their intellect.

It's allmost on a par with Rush Limbaugh's dittoheads and rather coincidentally, they now have exactly the same obsessions: inflating the threat posed by muslims, supporting Israel and telling us what's wrong with "the left".

[Internationalist]

"If he got himself a job"

Sorry, I missed an even more obvious parallel between the new Blairite school of anarchism and Rush's dittoheads: they think anyone who disagrees (lib'ruls, reds, arabs, illegal immigrants ...) is lazy and living off the DAMNED HARD WORK of God's chosen people.

[zionist]

yeah you rise above it internationalist , just ignore them , at last now you are taking sides with us zionists well done , you wont regrete it shalom

[Internationalist]

"at last now you are taking sides with us zionists"

I take sides against BOTH islamists AND zionists because they are both peddlers of reactionary, sectarian anti-working class ideologies.

As any marxist/anarchist with just an ounce of principle should do.

[zionist]

i love you internationalist , dont ever change you crazeeee keeed x

[Benjamin F]

'inflating the threat posed by muslims, supporting Israel and telling us what's wrong with "the left".'

First Paul is not inflating the threat posed by Muslims - but particular forms of political Islam, just as you Internationalist, are not attacking Jews, but political forms of Judaism - ie those which aim to speak on behalf of the Jewish people in a chauvinistic-statist manner.

Second, it is just plain ignorant to ignore the horrors of Jihadism, whilst at the same time banging on about Zionism. Yes Zionism is pernicious. It exploits, penalises and robs millions, perhaps almost ten million, arabs and Palestinians in Israel, Gaza, West Bank, and the refugee camps across the arab world and indeed the wider diaspora. But political Islam whether in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. exploits, imprisons, humiliates and murders many, many more. Shouldn't radicals examine and counter political Islam with the same intensity as we examine and counter Zionism?

[Internationalist]

I think we are all agreed that islamism is a bad thing. The idea that a discussion needs to be "kick-started" is absurd.

As another person has pointed out, Paul is jumping on a populist bandwagon - islamophobia. For which he should be made to feel thoroughly ashamed of himself.

The idea that there is a neat division between anti-islamism and islamophobia in the current political context is utterly absurd.

On the other hand there is a very, very clear distinction between opposition to the State of Israel and anti-semitism.

Nobody (except possibly a tiny minority of Nazis) is demanding that Jewish men remove their kippahs or to stop building synagogues. However much we might detest religion in general, to do so would be rightly condemned as anti-semitism.

However, there are plenty of people telling muslims to remove their headscarves, not to build mosques, and that there are too many minarets in Switzerland.

Zionism is NOT a political form of Judaism as you say, any more than Scottish Nationalism is a political form of presbyterianism. Zionism is secular Israeli nationalism.

Israel is one of the most important building blocks in western imperialism, therefore effective criticism of Israel is absolute taboo in many quarters. This is not true of the islamic countries you mention - just about everyone agrees they are shitholes.

However, Paul's article does not deal with these countries, it is entitled "British Islamism: Towards An Anarchist Response". Does "British Zionism" likewise call for "An Anarchist Response"? I don't think so. On the other hand does "The Middle East Crisis" deserve "An Anarchist Response"? You bet.

[zionist victor koenick]

i disagree , i think you can be anti islam without being an islamaphobe , incidentally to the best of my knowledge that's not even a real word , just something invented by the SWP to cover their tracks,also it is important to understand the differences between religions , no one complains about the Buddhists , hara Krishna or Hindus like they do the Muslims , this is because Islamic doctrines promote aggression and militarism , and Jews according to the doctrines of their religion cannot seek converts , Islam like all religions should be discouraged, one mosque church or synagogue is one too many and i wouldn't want any of this weird pagan(instead of voodoo out of respect to rastas culture ) crap going on near me

[Internationalist]

"i disagree , i think you can be anti islam without being an islamaphobe"

No you can't. You can be anti-religion without being an islamophobe.

"Islamophobe" was not invented by the SWP - they are not that clever. However, it is a neologism because it is a relatively recent phenomenon. By the same token the term "anti-papist" and "anti-popery" came about in a specific historical context.

[zionist victor koenick]

oh ok , i didn't see what you meant , i thought islama phobia was a racist term against anyone who looked Muslim , not an anti religionist term , i would not like to be classed as a islamaphobe though as that implies hating one religion more than others , i would class myself as a Marxist and hate them all equally , if they must practice their black arts let them do it in secrete with shame , not right under civilised peoples noses and funded by the tax payer

[Internationalist]

To put it another way, is it possible to stand up in the middle of Belfast and proclaim yourself an "anti-Catholic" or an "anti-Protestant" without being (correctly) regarded as a sectarian? And would it be a legitimate defense to say "ah well, I'm only against the Catholics who plant bombs or molest children"?

Would it have been possible to stand up in Berlin in 1933 and start mouthing off about the international jewish financial conspiracy without being (correctly) considered an anti-semite? Would it have been a legitimate defense to have said "Ah, but I have got nothing against Jews in general, just the ones that are finance capitalists - oh and of course, their brothers, the Communists".

By the same token the people at the blog I am not allowed to mention know exactly what they are doing. There is a reason why 80% of their posts are aimed against muslims, and it is no defense to say "ah well, we are only against the bad muslims, so we are not islamophobes".

[zionist victor koenick]

but saying that if i stood up in India and said i hate all Muslims , or Kurdistan ,or new York or Israel or hackney ,or the caucuses or the Philippines or the Lebanon etc etc , their is a specific problem with militant Islam , theirs an old saying , if three people tell you its raining you should buy an umbrella , the problem is not with Muslims though it is with the ideology of militant Islam , i am against militant Zionists but i have nothing against Jews in general , i think that argument is rather insulting tto peoples intelligence and moderate Muslims who probably hate Islamic funder-mentalists too

[Internationalist]

I am sure "moderate Muslims" (I hate that term, what does it mean? Am I a "moderate Christian"?) do hate Islamic fundamentalists.

However I am also convinced that "moderate Muslims" (with the exception of a few Uncle Toms) also hate the people who exploit Islamism to advance their own poisonous agendas - including the people behind The Blog I Am Not Allowed To Mention.

[Rasta]

Internationalist
Not addressing the points you are making on this thread - with which I largely agree, although I think it is a bit premature to make assumptions about and criticims of an article that hasn't actually been published yet - but to respond briefly to your rather passive-aggressive "merry xmas" message on the "about the author" thread:
(A)I don't celebrate Xmas - so have a merry day like any other, or whatever kind of day you want to have;
(B) I don't "blush", being darker than the required complexion for it, nor would I have any reason to, were I able to;
(C) I rather tell people "fuck off outta here with that bullshit" straight up to their face rather than in a roundabout way.
PS saying I was attemtping to restrict the paramaters of the debate or whatever is ridiculous. I asked you several times what the relevance of comparing early-19th century England to late-20th/early-21st century Guyana was, and all you could come out with was a bunch of rambling hogwash about transitions from rural poverty to urban squalor and how the latter was preferable (because, of course, it led your ancestors into the status of "urban proletariat", which is the only section of society able to "lead the revolution", according to the almost religiously dogmatic marxist viewpoints espoused by people like yourself and Steve "Biggie" E9 - although to judge by your comment about people being "too poor, uneducated, rurally isolated" etc. to effectively "lead" a "revolution", the revolution would be better left to wealthy Oxford graduates who've had the chance to jet around the world volunteering for NGOs or something...)
And of course the world does not revolve around Guyana. However, some of the people I mentioned who Steve "Biggie" E9 dismissed as "emotionally and intellectually illiterate" do live in Guyana, a place with which I am somewhat familiar. Hence the relevance of me talking about Guyana, as opposed to you nattering on about your early-19th century relatives in Worcestershire *AS IF THE "THIRD WORLD" WERE SOME KIND OF "150+ YEARS BEHIND THE TIMES" VERSION OF THE PAST OF "THE FIRST WORLD".*
Anyway, apologies for the off-topic post, but I said I wouldn't respond any more on "about the author", now nuff said and done with that.

[zionist victor koenick]

sorry mate but i honestly don't know what blogg you are on about , i think its called harry s place , i haven't seen it so i cant comment but their are loads of weird bloggs on the net , if i was you i would try not to get too hung up about it , seriously you are sounding a bit fixated, on a religionist front , i am guessing you were probably baptised a Christian but you don't believe the pope, i am sure their are loads of born Muslims out their who love a pint and hate the ayatollah, these are the people the left should be trying to reach not the weird head bangers

[James Walsh]

Well siad vic- the people that some over idenified as muslim and got all excited about did not need to a statement of support for the hijab to get out on the streets- all they needed was a demo to be addressing their real needs in this society.

[romanticanarchist]

Vic n James - your cultural sensitivity astounds me. If I were a film maker shooting the anarchist sequel to Four Lions, you'd definitely be in it. Ho, ho, ho...

[zionist victor koenick]

as i haven't seen the film i cant tell if you are taking the piss or not , but i will take that as a compliment , on a different note i have always classed myself as an unashamed Marxist , an admirer of Lenin , Stalin and mau , i find it real strange that politicly i find myself really hating the so called left and really admiring the so called anarchists , i don't feel that my politics are wrong , its the actions that draw me too the anarchists , the so called communists aren't true revolutionary's

[romanticanarchist]

Vic, I recommend you put it on your Christmas list - it's hilarious. Get one for James while you're at it. Have a great Christmas, see you both in the New Year, safe and sound.

[zionist victor koenick]

i would just like to wish you all a very mery xmas folks x

[Internationalist]

Vic and James, I agree. Whether someone enjoys a pint is a far better criterion for judging them than what religion they were born into.

roman, agree Four Lions is a must see.

Nice talking to you guys.

Now I have to go and stuff the goose.

Merry Christmas to one and all.

[Rasta]

Vic is an "admirer of Lenin, Stalin and Mao"... well being an admirer of these draconian authoritarian mass murderers makes sense given his apparent support for the draconian authoritarian mass murdering Israeli state.
Have a nice day like any other, folks, and why not go veggie this xmas and give the poor geese and turkeys a break, they love their lives too you know (well, they would if they weren't confined in torturous factory farm conditions).

[vic]

you cannot create socialism without breaking a few eggs , stalin , a revolution is not a tea party , it is a violent act , mau, one man with a gun can controle a hundred , not very pretty statements , not very arty , but true none the less , these men are still viewed by most of the world as great heroes , it is their old enemies in the capitalist west that still hate and fear them , hope you all have a loverly revolutionary new year

[Rasta]

Change that to "you cannot create a fake so-called socialist elitist authoritarian society without mass murdering poor people just like your tsarist, dynastic etc. predecessors did" and you'd have an accurate statement.
Having grown up in a fake so-called socialist elitist society (although not nearly as bad as the soviet union or china) I do not share your romantic illusions about such.
And what poll did you commission that determined that "most of the world" views them as "great heroes"?

[vic]

ask your average chinaman or russian , its just a fact man live with it , it was thanks to mau and stalin that they arent flying swastikas over buckingham palace , life aint fair comrade , but you should still learn to live with historical facts

[Rasta]

What a load of fucking bullshit. I mean, my god, man - learn some really basic history before you start talking about "historical facts." Hitler was already dead before Mao (spelled with an "o", not a "u") came to power. It was thanks to the ordinary people in the Russian army that they ain't flying a swastika - was Joseph Stalin on the front lines?? That's like saying that it's thanks to Winston Churchill that we ain't flying a swastika - did he pilot any spitfires?? And what's the big difference between the union jack and the swastika anyway - if anything, a difference in degree, not in kind.
A friend of mine from India put it well when one idiot yankee white boy told her that it was thanks to the U.S. that they weren't speaking Japanese in India - she said "well, we're speaking English, aren't we? What's the difference?"
The small little mini-despots of Guyana from Burnham to our current thief-in-chief BharRATJagdeo were/are bad enough - multiply them by thousands and you get real mass-grave diggers like Stalin and Mao (and Lenin, to a lesser extent). The whole a dem should burn in fire. Ordinary everyday working class people are well capable of running the world without any of these self-proclaimed egomaniacal mis-leaders. All we need is access to information and resistance to the system's divide and conquer strategies.
This is a trailer for an upcoming documentary about a real socialist who had the capability to inspire the ordinary everyday working class people of Guyana to unite and move forward, which is why the fake authoritarian egomaniacal so-called "co-operative socialist" Linden Forbes Samson Burnham had him killed. You can see L.F.S. Burnham smirking about this towards the end of the clip. What a scumbag - but he only had a couple people killed (and loads beaten up and imprisoned), as opposed to Stalin and Mao who had a body count well into the millions, and if you think all, most or even half of those millions were capitalist reactionary counter-revolutionaries then you are completely deluded. Most of them were ordinary poor people who were sacrificed like so many heads of livestock in the name of a twisted, pseudo-religious version of "marxism".
Trailer for "W.A.R. stories" (Walter Antony Rodney):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJXnBCVZS8&playnext=1&list=PLB06F1B932301EEAC&index=16

[vic]

now i realy am not unsympathetic to your view , but i think you are being utopian , hitler was far far worse than stalin , and i realy think that it was largly due to stalin and the communist party in russia that germany lost the second world war , and mau was always a force to be recond with , as a jew i think that if it wasnt for stalin my whole race would have been exterminated , and yes i know stalin was antisemetic, says a lot for the mans proffessionalism realy in that he also outlawed antisematism , i dont see too much point arguing about the rights and wrongs of the man now as he was very much a product of his time and place , i think cromwell too was a great champion of the working classes , so was ho chi min , castro and che , as the great man said , you cannot create socialism without breaking a few eggs

[vic]

perhaps in the future you could be partly right , but i am not an anarchist , as trotsky said with referance to hitler , the nazi party would never have gotten as far as it did without good leadership , now i do believe that all leaders should be truly democraticaly accountable , but their will always be a need for good leadership which i believe these men were in their time and place , cromwell , mau , stalin , ho chi min castro, not che so much , more of a crusading idealist , i know that as an anarchist you will disagree with me , but what can you offer in its place , impractical utopianism , or somthing new , i realy dont care if it is called communism or anarchism , so long as it translates into freedom and economic improvement for the masses , good luck to you, i wouldnt want to be purged iether , but you must put things into their historical context

[vic]

to be honest i realy wish you were right

[Rasta]

You don't have to wish :)

[vic]

i am a realist comrade , and the left , now more than ever, cries out for leadership , and without it we are fucked , but when the time comes so does the man/woman , well nows the time so i am certain that the right person will turn up, somone we can all rally behind around and support, it will happen

[Rasta]

I mentioned "twisted, pseudo-religious version[s] of marxism" or some such phrase in one of my posts above... well re vic's latest missive... nuff said...
[cue "Jesus Christ Superstar" music with "Jesus Christ" replaced by "Josef Stalin","Kim Il Sung" etc.]

[vic]

i know where you are comming from , but i realy am not like that , i dont diefy them , they are giants from history , no one knows what the future holds , maybe its you?, no gods , no masters , leaders as and when we need them , and we need them now , i hope you had a good crimbo ,yeah , fuck that moonie un questioning cult bolix , leave that for the swpys, i just try too keep the faith and fight the good fight , no war but class war! and i dont need a toff with a degree to explain the world to me